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wrongrod
21-09-2005, 19:17
Q. If you are a leading light of ECHO. And are being sponsored by a leading bait company. Who's bait is being used to catch large imported carp, and those carp then go on to have there pictures published in leading carp mag's. And as a result, the captor wins a prize from that company in the form of bait. Do you still promote that bait company?
In a recent issue of a leading carp mag ther was a picture of Terry H, with an earley capture of the dark one. Behind him is a large sign in the water. What's on the sign? NO FISHING. I think it's called poachingl. Is this any way to promote what most of do, not for financial gain. But to escape from reality? And in publishing this picture, is this mag condoning poaching? What message does this send out to every one? There was a post on this site, where The Saint got caught with three rods, and only one licence. He was torn to bits. Message. Ok to poach, but don't fish without the required licences to cover the rods you are fishing with. Dave Lane. In my opinion the best carp fisherman out there. Talks about poaching the Mere. Now, if we use the same criteria to Mr Lane's exploits as we do to the Saint. Why was there not popular uprising to Mr Lane's illigal activites at the Mere?

thicky
21-09-2005, 19:21
LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gifIve had a bottle of wolfblass m8 im going to leave this one till the morning..LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gifExcellent,stirring type of question though...LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 19:25
I ask the q's no one else will.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 19:31
34 views two replys? Is there any body ouy there?

allibee
21-09-2005, 19:48
It's because it is a case of going against the system, or going against the odds.

Saint went against the system, the financial one. mentality of others really boils down to if we have to pay why shouldn't you
Daves exploits appeals to the pioneering spirit in people. It would be different if he was getting away without paying to fish there if others had to - no one pays there - apart from the wildlife.

so it is money versus morals

JAFFA
21-09-2005, 19:56
I will have a stab,but not sure if it will stay up for very long. http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Mr Lane was also guilty of fishing SF. Some well respected anglers spoke out about this at the time. As did a lot of us mere mortals http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yet he often shares the same stage as ECHO members,comittee members and even at fund rasing events for ECHO?

This has always puzzled me http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I know peoples fishing is a very personal thing regarding what they fish for or where they fish. But I cannot get my head around,how its fine to speak out regarding imports and yet it appears to mere mortals that all is well and fine with fishing SF http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

kind regards Jeff

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 20:03
So it's ok for me to do what the f--k I want as long as it's in the spirit of thinks? [censored]. What if we had the same laws that they have in France. By definition if I got caught doing something wrong, and went to court, and got a fine, and a criminal record. It would be ok to go and do the same crime again, and have it published in a national / international puplicatuion? [censored] off.

allibee
21-09-2005, 20:08
No one has said it is alright have they? Certainly not me. Magazines publish things that people will take an interest in - and the more contraversial the better. It gets people talking and that is free publicity for them

please remember this is a family site so would you please keep your bad language and that huge chip on your shoulder (Gold Cards) to yourself

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 20:11
If you are involved in a crime, I belive there is a law to cover it all. What happens when someoen gets caught poachng, and ueses the fact that certain carp mag's show pictures, and publish articals from people. Who admit to breaking the law. More £££ for the solicitors.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 20:19
I don't have a problem with a gold card. As £1250.00 is not a problem to me. I don't want one. As I fish for pleasure. And mine is proberbly already bigger than most of theres. lol. But you input is always welcome. A forum is about debate, not argument.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 20:27
So if what you call the law, is spelt system, that's ok? Please tell me when poaching was made legal? So I can tuen up at lets say Horton. And plonk myself down in a swim and just start fishing. And when asked for my ticket, say that's ok allibee said it's in the spirit of things?

Joephus
21-09-2005, 20:31
The people who fish these lakes now there breaking the law. People know there breaking the law and risking lives when they speed but most still do it.
You either choose to obey all laws or you dont.
Anyway its an adventure like when you were a kid climbing over fences,hidding......loads of fun.

daytimedave
21-09-2005, 20:40
who do they think they are these carp celebritys of ours..... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 20:48
Shame the Kray's, did not use that argument, it was something new, an adventure. If I got caught with 10 kilo's of coke. And I told the court, it's the first time that I had done it. It was an adventure. Would their reply be, f--k it go and write about it in a mag, and make a living out of it? The law is the law. Yes or no? If no then Ian Chilcot, and Co, risked their life's, to uphold it for nothing.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 20:53
As for mag publishing things that people will take an interest in. What about nasty things, that I am not going to mention? If someone nicked your tackle, and the police caught the. And then told you that they where letting the go, because their defence was, it was an adventure. How would you feel?

markbarrett
21-09-2005, 20:54
i am not really sure what you are driving at here ella.

the 3 rods thing was different in that that "angler" knew what he was doing, depriving the EA of money needed to maintain and police our weaterways, then bleated about being caught, well shock horror, he didnt get any sympathy, and quite rightly so.

as for poaching, well let him who is without sin and all that. if you have never broken a rule or law then fair play to you. if you have sped, fished an extra rod, cast into an out of bounds swim etc then you really cant complain when someone well known does it and gets a result.

at the end of the day i dont think making a big fact of the fact that you are poaching is particularly smart, or clever, but as long as nobodys fishing or fish are jeopardised by it then i say live and let live.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 21:10
If I as one of the best know anglers, you send a picture to a mag, holding a stunning looking carp. All well and good. But when said pic has a large sign behind your right shoulder, which say's NO FISHING. That's sending the wrong message to all the young anglers who see it. I am not without sin. But I do not encourage my son, or others to make the same mistakes as me. What's the differance in law between poaching, and fishing without a licence? You could be hanged for poaching. It's an old law.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 21:19
It would seem that you are if favor of more taxes. In the old days of the rod licence, before Mrs Thatcher. Where did our money go? To various water boards. Did they spend this no looking after our water inferstructure? How mush money is spent on trying to look after Salmon stocks, as a ratio of money collected from salmon anglers?

Goose777
21-09-2005, 21:30
Bang to rights with pictures in mags to prove the case and still no action taken, just about sums the country up as a whole, loads of crimes on cctv and no prosecution because the perpeitraitor is a known offender and will make bad press and get off with next to nothing. We only prosecute easy targets in this country now like joe public or money makers hence speed camera's.

chunkie
21-09-2005, 21:38
[ QUOTE ]
that's ok allibee said it's in the spirit of things?

[/ QUOTE ]


im off to horton, whos coming pmsl

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 21:45
Does pms meen Pre Menstral syndrome? If it does your taking the bloody p--s

allibee
21-09-2005, 21:50
[ QUOTE ]
As for mag publishing things that people will take an interest in. What about nasty things, that I am not going to mention? If someone nicked your tackle, and the police caught the. And then told you that they where letting the go, because their defence was, it was an adventure. How would you feel?

[/ QUOTE ]

I sincerely doubt that saying its just an adventure would get you out on the streets again....

You're trying to make analogies out of disparate things that are nonsensical and irrelevant

Your question was: why aren't people making a song and dance about someone fishing a water they shouldn't vs. someone not paying their licence. You cannot compare the two.

Magazines and newspapers thrive on the NON mundane (joe bloggs never paid for two licences - who on earth wants to pay good money to read about that? now, if Prince charles and camilla parkyer bowels had not brought enough licences - or jude law - or brad pitt THEN would it be newsworthy.)

No one condones what DL did. no one condones where he did it. BUT it makes interesting reading (and no small controversy) which is what people DO buy magazines for. No one is twisting your arm to buy the magazines though

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 22:11
The simple comparison is. THEY ARE BOTH AGAINST THE LAW. right or worng?

Fagin
21-09-2005, 22:15
In reality yes.

Poaching (and returning) fish is something that you would do for the merit of catching whats usually a large, old warrior (which it usually is).

Fishing without the correct licences just goes against the anglers code of conduct. Seeing as *supposedly* the revenue is used to benifit anglers and waters.

allibee
21-09-2005, 22:27
LOL

as is being in possession of drugs - well that will empty the anglers from half the waters round the country, wouldn't it
It is currently illegal for: • Two ex-cons to go shopping together in a supermarket if it sells alcohol. • A policeman to enter an off licence to buy a bottle of wine on his way home unless he covers his uniform. • Two friends to engage in “quarrelsome” behaviour in licensed premises. • A bottle of home made wine to be offered as a tombola prize at a village fete unless a liquor licence has been obtained. • Two prostitutes to have a drink together in a pub but one can drink on her own.

however it is currently legal for: • An adult to buy an alcoholic drink and give it to a child as young as 5

would anyone bat an eyelid at the 6 illegal examples there? yet I'm sure you'd be hacked off to the extreme if someone gave your 5 year old a big old tumbler of neat whisky to drink ...

those 'illegal' examples are non newsworthy, the last one is very newsworthy though

Fagin
21-09-2005, 22:31
[ QUOTE ]
LOL

as is being in possession of drugs - well that will empty the anglers from half the waters round the country, wouldn't it


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

"Your just picking on me cos i got dreads"

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 22:32
Most of the poeple that reading this thread, have transgressed the law at some point. Ever done 80mph on the motor way? But to publish photos, and admit to poaching in print is something else. If you had broken the law, would you encourage your kids to do the same? Please dont answer that one as the answer is NO. Then why show pictures, and print stories of what amount to illegal captures. If a 15 years old see's it? If it's ok for him to do it. It must be ok for me. ( Dad beats mum. Must be ok for me to beat my girl friend ) See my point? Are we getting to the point where there are too many pubilcations out there? And they will be published and be dammed?

Fagin
21-09-2005, 22:34
If i have a son, and he wants to go in search of carp from places he shouldnt, I will take him down the tackle shop and get him a stalking rod.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 22:37
Im forever blowing..........what was it i was blowing? pass that to me im next lol

Fagin
21-09-2005, 22:37
Feel free to keep your gay antics to yourself mate.

allibee
21-09-2005, 22:44
[ QUOTE ]
"Your just picking on me cos i got dreads"

[/ QUOTE ] http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OF COURSE it's published and be damned!

That's what SELLS!

The publications are not breaking any written law. Only the moral ones I referred to in my first post....

Regarding 15 year olds poaching - ever gone scrumping? that is also called 'trespassing'. As is allowing them to jump over the fence of the local sports centre at night to play a bit of footy as living 25 stories high in South lambeth on zero income the balconies are a bit narrow for a 5 aside, and those guys downstairs are selling drugs the only other place they can play. Please don't tell me you'd prefer your kids playing round the pimps and druggies as the answer is NO.

Life is just one long curve ball. you live with it where you can, and adapt it where you can't

Wanna buy my 9ft Bonsai for him Fagin? Will do the ickle fella a treat. 3lb tc will hoik a 35lber out from under his ickle feet http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

davesg
21-09-2005, 22:51
With regards guesting/ poaching park lakes, SSSI's where no fishing is allowed full stop I think are fair game (afterall anyone can have a go if they really want) and good luck to anyone that tries -they know the consequeces if caught. As long as the anglers "take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints", don't harm or damage the area in any way and return all fish. What real harm is there in that? Hardly crime of the century is it.

Obviously privately run waters are different and offenders should get what they are due if caught.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 22:52
Bubbles

Fagin
21-09-2005, 22:59
Jacko's monkey! Theres names for people like you ya kno!

[ QUOTE ]
ever gone scrumping?

[/ QUOTE ]

We used to jump a million fences to get to thetennis court in some school. Got chased many a time.

Got chased around the adventure centre behind the manor many a time in my yoot days, but it was the only way to the bus stop and i hadnt learned how to hotwire my mums car by then. Used to carry a butterfly knife aswell cos i was scared of getting anally raped at the bus stop!

And fishing some random farm pond, my mate got shot with an air rifle, and it was a salt pellet. That farmer was shooting to kill. Good job he didnt shoot me other wise i would of probaly broke down im tears and snapped my 10ft Dam Matchwinner Rod. (no inserts in the eyes)

and i aint got a clue why i am still up, that feels like trespassing alone.

allibee
21-09-2005, 23:02
[ QUOTE ]
(no inserts in the eyes)

[/ QUOTE ]

good, it's probably illegal - and very painful http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

don't trespass at the circus (http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2004/i_bummed-p1.php) Hey, I don't think it's illegal, but it made the red eye http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Fagin
21-09-2005, 23:03
Just dont go to the circus full stop. Clowns get 'nuff kicks scaring little kids.

allibee
21-09-2005, 23:05
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 23:05
That's my point. Theses are privatly run waters. And fishing is not allowed. I fish W2. The rules state no cutting swims, or destruction of the flora. Do I say bo--cks? I am doing what I please. No I follow the rules. There is a law that stops criminals making a profit from their crimes. If it's against the law thats it. It can't be a little bit wrong, can it?

Fagin
21-09-2005, 23:07
[ QUOTE ]
Theses are privatly run waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF! How do you know hearn hasnt got a ticket?

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 23:07
Yes. Thank you for reminding me. Oh but a ...where was I?

allibee
21-09-2005, 23:17
to my knowledge (which ain't much admittedly) the Mere is not a fishery. So therefore not the kind of 'private rules water' you suggest.
It's a nature reserve. It is for people with box brownies in pith helmets and hobnailed boots to trample all the flora underfoot and scare the bejesus out the resident aquatic life so they can 'twitch' to their hearts content

Fagin
21-09-2005, 23:20
Oh is the dark one the black mirror? in which case no it wasnt a fishery.

Is now tho, I heard theres so many on there that there is a hot dog stand, pop corn seller, fair ground rides and pin the tail on the donkey.

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 23:22
What no a lake that does not allow fishing. Do you mean a season ticket to the old north bank at upton park? Is it still there? I got arressted when I was 15. Wrong end lucky I was not killed. Blue is the colour, what's the rest of it?

Fagin
21-09-2005, 23:24
[ QUOTE ]
What no a lake that does not allow fishing. Do you mean a season ticket to the old north bank at upton park? Is it still there? I got arressted when I was 15. Wrong end lucky I was not killed. Blue is the colour, what's the rest of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

And it goes a little something like this

Blue is the colour
football is the game
poor old matty harding
should of took the train

anyway, enough of me being a sarki [email protected] for one night. Im off to bed, its been emotional chaps (chappettes)

wrongrod
21-09-2005, 23:28
I did not suggest anything. AlI said was, no fishing rules where in force. Not these rules only apply to the people how chose to obay them.

thicky
22-09-2005, 07:10
Turn a blind eye to poaching yet castigate a fella for using 3 rods............................that makes you a hypocrite im afraid Mark.....LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 08:30
[ QUOTE ]
What no a lake that does not allow fishing. Do you mean a season ticket to the old north bank at upton park? Is it still there? I got arressted when I was 15. Wrong end lucky I was not killed. Blue is the colour, what's the rest of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever considered detox? http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Fagin
22-09-2005, 08:32
Steve, to be honest I think its an alias of Kate Moss.

Hippy
22-09-2005, 09:01
Two tetchy threads in one day WR, try getting out of bed the other side tomorrow!!

If someone is a member of ECHO and sponsored by a company that also publiscises wrong'uns, I've not too much trouble with that - the person is not personally associated with those waters, and is not responsible for what his sponsor does for others.
As for "poaching" despite any legal definitions, in the minds of general public/most anglers a poacher is someone who steals livestock. Guesting implies visiting waters that are not open to anglers otherwise, and returning any fish caught. Your comparision to Horton and the Mere is a crock - most people would utterly condemn anyone who went onto Horton without a ticket, or in the close, as it would [censored] up others fishing. Done properly, guesting should affect no one. I must admit though, I was a little uncomfortable with the photo in question, but then again, not that bothered. Fishing waters that do not allow fishing is a pretty well established tradition within angling, and has gone on for years - lots have done it.

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 09:04
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
More like Stirling Moss... going right off the track big-time.. in a right old spin! http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif



btw - for those far younger than myself, Sterling Moss was a racing car driver! http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Fagin
22-09-2005, 09:05
LOL i did wonder. My racing car drivers dont extend passed Eton Senner (sp?)

and i only knew him cos of the old jokes http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Klewless
22-09-2005, 09:15
Heres a thought - I honestly think Wrongrod is full of bull [censored] and doesnt have a clue about what he's talking about...... Coming on here having pops at mags, at anglers, at bait firms .... m honestly surprised he hasnt had a pop at himself just for good measure...... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Can i ask 1 poignient question m8 - what is your reason for this ??.... who are you (strangely its missing from your profile - LOL)

Wrongrod.... the fish is the Black Mirror - dont you know anything? http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif - and so you may start to understand the true facts, when Tel and the others lads (including me occassionally) where on there there wasnt any of the current high profile nonsensicle anti angler campaign on the mere... it was looked after by the caretaker of the lake next door and he was sound...

The real problem lies with the individuals that stirred this hornets nest up with the EA and EN.... if it wasnt for that them we would not have any of these problems...

And no - i do not class fishing a 'no fishing' SSSI as being anything like pioaching a lake that is contriolled by a angling club or syndicate with managed angling on it....

Doffs cap .... and sighs at the sad pop this thread is....

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 09:23
The clue to the posters identity is in the writing methinx http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I can only recall one such poster that fits the bill exactly... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Klewless
22-09-2005, 09:29
That person had agreed that the beef was over... and not to labour it on and on - and i tend to hope this isnt Mick...

Goose777
22-09-2005, 09:32
So most here seem to be of he opinion that it's ok to poach waters that are not syndicated or club waters and would even buy there children the equipment to do it. How about a privately owned lake that has never been fished and contains some huge old fish which are much loved by the owner who has grown them on for fourty years in the privacy of his own grounds, is it still ok to have a go at these fish ?

STEVIE_H
22-09-2005, 09:33
"As for "poaching" despite any legal definitions, in the minds of general public/most anglers a poacher is someone who steals livestock" - lol yeah right keep saying it and one day you might convince yourself... Fishing the Mere is poaching - that simple - fishing somewhere you shouldn't - like me rolling up at Horton....

Klewless
22-09-2005, 09:34
Then many of us will fundimentally disagree on that exact point.....

bullasboss
22-09-2005, 09:38
[ QUOTE ]
like me rolling up at Horton....

[/ QUOTE ]
you wouldn't last 5 mins http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

QuietlyAvinEm
22-09-2005, 09:40
[ QUOTE ]
In a recent issue of a leading carp mag ther was a picture of Terry H, with an earley capture of the dark one. Behind him is a large sign in the water. What's on the sign? NO FISHING. What message does this send out to every one?

and

Where did our money go? To various water boards. Did they spend this no looking after our water inferstructure?

[/ QUOTE ]


1) The best place to put your bait is near the sign?
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

2) No, they spent all the money on No Fishing signs.
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

stonesy
22-09-2005, 09:41
[ QUOTE ]
Turn a blind eye to poaching yet castigate a fella for using 3 rods............................that makes you a hypocrite im afraid Mark.....LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said Thicky. Blatant hypocrisy. I hope he gets caught guesting/poaching/whatever by his beloved underfunded EA officials, then he'll no doubt be the one 'bleating' for sympathy. LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rob9846
22-09-2005, 09:44
I havn't read all the posts because i don't have the time today.
I think the maindiffernce between The saint and people poaching carping celebs or not, is that the saint complained about the attitude of the EA guy when caught and that got a few peoples back up, and these "poachers" (you actually have to take the fish away to be classed as poaching these guys are tresspassing!) havn't been caught, if they had and it was written in the mags how much of a [censored] etc the owner of the water was then i think it would promote a differn't view.
Make any sense???!

rob

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 09:46
[ QUOTE ]


1) The best place to put your bait is near the sign?
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

2) No, they spent all the money on No Fishing signs.
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL
classic! http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hippy
22-09-2005, 09:48
"lol yeah right keep saying it and one day you might convince yourself... Fishing the Mere is poaching - that simple - fishing somewhere you shouldn't - like me rolling up at Horton..."

Like I said, legally it's the same, but preceived very differently, and poaching the mere and poaching Horton would be seen very differently by the vast majority of anglers IMHO.
As a comparison, I would react very differently to to someone doing 80mph on the motorway, compared with someone doing 40mph on the road outside my school, yet they're both breaking the same law.....
And the way it is done is important. I would be tempted to fish your hypothetical lake, but only if I could sneak on in the dark and dissapear without leaving a trace - he'd be none the wiser and no-one would be harmed. If I rolled up midday, cut down a load of vegetation and left behing a dozen empty Stella cans, it would be a touch different (in consequnces at least..)

Nat
22-09-2005, 09:53
Of course fishing a place like the Mere is poaching, theres no argumant against that, but Terry Hearn shouldnt have allowed those pictures to get about and get published, bit of a let down that one, thats a personal picture between mates and closed doors....theres a line.

thicky
22-09-2005, 09:54
Funny thing i really dont care who poaches and who doesnt but to do as Mark did and ridicule The Saint then big up poachers is pure Hypocrisy, as normal its the old saying "when it suits"
Wrong Rod it seems spent half the night replying to himself......LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Lew,as it happens the question he asks is rather a good one,how far do our morals go,to be associated with companys that openly promote "dodgy fisheries" whilst taking money from them but disagreeing strongly with them?Dont let the Mere bit confuse the best part of WrongRods question m8.

Klewless
22-09-2005, 09:56
No - dont agree - they are pictures of how it was - not how it is now...... Its a matter of perspective....

This is the old - Guesting V Poaching debate... one i aint gonna get into now - ring Rod Hutchinson and ask him as it was his book (carp strikes back) that defines guesting..... and introduced teh concept to our world http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

STEVIE_H
22-09-2005, 09:57
But sureley the general public could percieve fishing the Mere a far worse crime than me poching Horton, I mean one is NO fishing - the other is.... I'm not saying I wouldn't do it - I'm saying be careful about how you brag about it !

Nat
22-09-2005, 10:02
Lewis, I'm not saying its wrong! I'm saying it how it is, it's poaching, and its your business if you want to do it or not, but its needs to be kept a mystery, you must know what i mean surely?!?

I wouldn't poach Horton, not enough tree's and bushes to hide in.

Goose777
22-09-2005, 10:09
I would be tempted to fish your hypothetical lake, but only if I could sneak on in the dark and dissapear without leaving a trace - he'd be none the wiser and no-one would be harmed. If I rolled up midday, cut down a load of vegetation and left behing a dozen empty Stella cans, it would be a touch different (in consequnces at least..) http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
and if he saw you and shot you for it would you cry and prosecute or take your punishment ? even if the law wanted to hang him for defending his property form someone who had no right to be there in the first place.

allibee
22-09-2005, 10:13
[ QUOTE ]
That person had agreed that the beef was over... and not to labour it on and on - and i tend to hope this isnt Mick...

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, I have just worked out who this is now http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif

poaching
n. Taking game without permission from private land or from land on which the killing of game is restricted. Wild animals cannot usually be stolen; there are, however, various statutory offences to cover poaching that do not amount to theft. For example, the Deer Act 1980 creates offences relating to taking, killing, or injuring deer or trespassing on land with the intention of committing any of these acts. Conviction may involve forfeiture of the game taken or of the equipment and vehicles used in poaching. There are also special offences relating to taking or destroying fish in private waters or in waters with a private right of fishery. There is special legislation dealing with the poaching of endangered species.


So, once and for all, poaching means taking away, killing or injuring the animal, or trespassing with the intent to kill, injure or take away.

None of these things happened as far as I am aware so ITS NOT POACHING chaps.

Hope that clears that one up

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 10:17
[ QUOTE ]
and if he saw you and shot you for it would you cry and prosecute or take your punishment ?

[/ QUOTE ]
That would depend on the severity of the said 'shooting'..
there's one scenario that I can imagine, where I wouldn't have a leg to stand on! http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

STEVIE_H
22-09-2005, 10:17
"or trespassing with the intent to kill, injure or take away."
injure - you mean like hook in mouth and dragging out a fish - its all interpretation

rob9846
22-09-2005, 10:18
exactly what i said!

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 10:23
Alibee, I appreciate what you say, but there's no way on earth that you can PROOVE that you didn't intend on taking it away... If the intent was deliberately percieved in that manner purely to exact a higher punisshment, how could you reasonably proove otherwise?

Nat
22-09-2005, 10:30
You can be done for poaching just for 'being there'..rod in hand and line and hooks.. You (our) word against the laws of the land, and in some respect its good as it raises the stakes!

Goose777
22-09-2005, 10:43
What is suitable punishment for tresspassing, young lady in the bath and a tresspasser entres and takes a few pictures and leaves or fishing in the early hours and someone stands by the bivvy door with bat in hand while his mates steels the rods, if I shot him in this act and his mate legs it most would think (myself included) that he got what he deserved.

rob9846
22-09-2005, 10:49
Goose777 what the hell are you on about!! are we discussing the moral differance between not buying a EA rod licence and fishing for carp where you shouldn't or the letter of the law!!!
The only decent punishment for thievs is slamming there hands in a car door (this i know!)

allibee
22-09-2005, 10:56
[ QUOTE ]
"or trespassing with the intent to kill, injure or take away."
injure - you mean like hook in mouth and dragging out a fish - its all interpretation

[/ QUOTE ]

in that case that is what we all do on any water then

exactly, it is interpretation

woman murders her husband in cold blood, found with smoking gun
OR woman wrestles gun from drunk husband who has physically/mentally abused her and their small daughter for many years and whilst in traumatised state shoots him dead

would she get a life sentance or a pat on the back?

You can't disprove it either Steve. In Dave's case - and Terrys too I suppose - their public status could actually prove that they fish with no intention to kill, harm or take away.

Clever lawyers can paint any picture they want

ben_weir
22-09-2005, 11:10
CouldnÂ’t agree with Thicky more on this one to vilify one person for rod licence evasion and then championing another for the fact that they have contravened part of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 by fishing the Mere smacks of hypocrisy!!


Which of the two offences is more damaging to angling as a whole???

Klewless
22-09-2005, 11:14
Who vilified matey for using a third rod.... no one i saw - they just didnt show pity - thre is a huge difference... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Goose777
22-09-2005, 11:25
are we discussing the moral differance between not buying a EA rod licence and fishing for carp where you shouldn't or the letter of the law http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif getting threads muddled, thought we were discussing the rights and wrongs of tresspassing, seems strange that one person can fish on a water with no fishing and publish the pictures and another will be prosecuted for it.

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 11:28
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Joggered if i can remember now!

All I know is... i'm gonna keep an eye open for wrongwords - ooops sorry, wrongrods post in future... highly entertaining!

http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

markbarrett
22-09-2005, 11:32
exactly lew, yes i had a go at the saint, frankly i thought his attitude stank to high heaven, if he had been doing it unintentionally or was ignorant of the facts then fair enough, but he kept claiming he knew the score and was trying it on. he did, he got caught, take your medecine.

micky re read my post, i dont "big up" poaching, in fact i think you will find that i said that the photos werent the smartest thing to do. fact is that it goes on and no debate on here is ever going to stop it thats for sure.

as for the comment from someone else about my "beloved EA". i am not a huge fan of the EA but, and this is the point, they are all that we have got, and from personal experience they are doing what they can. is it enough? no probasbly it isnt, but if some on here tried working with the EA rather than against it, you might be very suprised at the outcome.

Goose777
22-09-2005, 11:34
All he is basicaly saying is the law is an [censored], we have all known this for years and its still an emotive subject.

ben_weir
22-09-2005, 11:34
I would say he came in for a fare amount of flack for what isn't the most Heinous of crimes even though he wasnt really looking for sympathy as was pointed out numerous times.

Back to subject why is contravening part of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 by fishing the Mere OK.......I am just wondering because there are many SSSi's with out of bounds where the same legislation could be applied if I were to be caught fishing them(wouldn't do it) Would this still be fair game though????

Klewless
22-09-2005, 11:38
Thats up to you to decide Ben....... r u willing to pay the fine and have a record for a bit of fishing? Are you so accutely focused on the goal of catching a dream fish (assuming all these other SSSI's have dream fish in?

It doesnt matter what the Act says - but it isnt not a value judgement to be taken lightly either

LOL

No one else can decise but you........

http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Paul_the_Bailiff
22-09-2005, 11:39
rob9846, with regards to your comment about that you have to take fish away to be classed as poaching, if you put them back its just tresspassing. In fact being in posession of fishing tackle on a venue (ANY venue) where you DO NOT have permission is an offence under the 1968 Theft Act.

miller
22-09-2005, 11:42
[ QUOTE ]
Back to subject why is contravening part of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 by fishing the Mere OK

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.......'cos Lew's mate Terry says so. Lewis offers more protection than a Durex when it come to Tel http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Klewless
22-09-2005, 11:42
Paul....

I believe you have to have the equipment to steel the fish at your disposal - ie sacks or other containers - just fishing tackle doesnt show intent...


Just my understanding....

steve_howard
22-09-2005, 11:44
[ QUOTE ]
In fact being in posession of fishing tackle on a venue (ANY venue) where you DO NOT have permission is an offence under the 1968 Theft Act.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's the nub of it right there!
You don't even have to be FISHING to be charged with THEFT http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If you're caught with the 'intention' of fishing, it will be presumed to be attempted theft, aka poaching! http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

GAS
22-09-2005, 11:45
PMSL Miller , good to have you back on line

Paul_the_Bailiff
22-09-2005, 11:45
Not quite Allibee, if you have permission its ok.

ben_weir
22-09-2005, 11:47
He who dares!!!!


I daren't I think you would get a good hiding from the other members and rightly so!!

Paul_the_Bailiff
22-09-2005, 11:47
Lewis... No, just the tackle is enough.

Paul.

Nat
22-09-2005, 11:48
Thats what i said about 5,605,373 posts ago.....

This thread is like a herd of buffalo - its moves a fast as the slowest..

http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Klewless
22-09-2005, 11:48
Oh - i know a case (2 actually at the same venue) where the police used this criteria.....

confusing isnt it - the law..... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hippy
22-09-2005, 11:49
In regards to the shooting issue, if a guy just shot a fisherman on his land, he would get prosecuted. Bit of an extreme example. If you break the law, you take the consequences. I no longer guest anywhere, as having a record would bea problem for me, and I'm not prepared to risk it. But if someone is doing a little guesting on an SSI, they're hardly commiting the crime of the century. For someone who is driven by catching big, beautiful and elusive carp, somewthing like the BM is bl##dy hard to ignore, and, as has been mentioned, who can critiscise from the standpoint of having NEVER broken a law?
I don't think anyone is arguing that fishing an SSI is not illegal, but whether we should vehemently condemn someone for it is another matter entirely.

NickyH
22-09-2005, 11:50
The answer to this thread is so basic it's funny

Don't do the crime if you can't take the time.....No sane individual is gonna claim it's legal to go guesting, but at the same time it's your own choice.

Z3k
22-09-2005, 11:50
[ QUOTE ]
I believe you have to have the equipment to steel the fish at you disposal

[/ QUOTE ]

Your mate with the tank could only be a phone call away, your net will be fine for retention til he arrives?

QuietlyAvinEm
22-09-2005, 11:51
Thread of the month contender for sure.
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Really original and thought provoking stuff.
I've done a search and can find no reference to a Mere in Wraysbury, a Black Mirror (do they work like normal mirrors), or those blokes Dave and Terry, incidentally who are they?
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

NickyH
22-09-2005, 11:52
Quality..

Nat
22-09-2005, 11:54
What about if the laws now changed because of said picture in the magazine is seen by someone who takes is as though that person is taking the p**s? That person could be an influence with some judge or politician and a new law could be inrtoduced where fishing somewhere like the Mere would be a serious offence ending up with minimal fines/jail/community service etc and put on crimal record for the rest of their lives? You never know who is looking at these pics....its a dangerous game....leave the pics at home, like i said for you mates and closed doors.....otherwise we are flirting with the law....but instead of just youself being 'done' you could be wrecking it for others out there who keep it on the down low for respect for their 'brothers' so to speak.

thicky
22-09-2005, 12:07
LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

allibee
22-09-2005, 12:13
[ QUOTE ]
That person could be an influence with some judge or politician

[/ QUOTE ]

there's probably laws against 'influencing' too you know!

Too many 'what if's'

What if ....













we all agree to differ?

ripper
22-09-2005, 12:36
Post deleted by sam

Nat
22-09-2005, 12:39
I'm calling for resignations...

ripper
22-09-2005, 12:46
Sorry, read on a bit, that was already cleared up earlier.

My answer - Any fishing where you aint supposed to be there is called poaching. Poachers use the term guesting to distance themselves from poachers, but fortunately it seems most of us recognise this. Wrongword is right, hypocrits. We all tweak the rules a little. Live and let live. Saint tried to make the point he accepted the punishment but some posters dont read posts properly and just steam in like sheep.

Klewless
22-09-2005, 12:48
Most posters on this thread do see the difference betweet pppoachers and guesters..... so no - the concensus isnt in agreement with u.... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif

ripper
22-09-2005, 12:52
Oh well at least everybody alse in the country except for a few poacher carpers (who have conciensce issues) agree with me http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Klewless
22-09-2005, 12:54
http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

LOL - you could be a politicians spin doctor..... doubt you'd work if i cast you out anyway http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ripper
22-09-2005, 13:08
That is bad. Politician AND spin doctor in the same insult.

Come on be a man, your a poacher, admit it. I am, he is, they are - join us!

Could a burglar just be guesting if he just came in for a look?

Klewless
22-09-2005, 13:09
LOL

I aint ever nicked a fish - so im a guester..... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

We will agree to disagree on this issue i think - or i am not gonna be doin much work this PM.. http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Goose777
22-09-2005, 13:10
Most posters on this thread do see the difference betweet poachers and guesters http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif but isn't this because we are all anglers and looking at this thread from an anglers point of veiw ? what if you knew nothing about angling and were a keen conservationist ? think you would have a different opinion ?

jonmiller
22-09-2005, 13:13
good point fella! http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

thicky
22-09-2005, 13:21
Im glad im going angling for a few days as my head is starting to hurt,im all confused poaching,guesting,3rods,EA have all blown my mind.Now where am i angling or is it poaching or is it guest..............[censored] it im off to the beautiful Colne Valley,good food,good company,good strippers,fine wines and you never know i might even get the rods out at some time..........LOL http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

allibee
22-09-2005, 13:26
most anglers are keen conservationists too. We love our fisheries and we love our fish. We hate litter louts and we hate poo on the pathway louts.

Most of us will also even know the name of every different wildfowl and invertebrate on our lakes and take pleasure in sharing our lives with them on the banks ...

yet we still stick metal hooks in fishes mouths and yank them out of their homes for our pleasure. Something of a contradiction, don't you think? Much like the point of this whole thread

ripper
22-09-2005, 13:30
I dont see a contradiction. Surely a knowledge of nature and an instinct to eat go hand in hand? Except we put them back - which is the strange bit really.

Markoncarp
22-09-2005, 13:34
Personally, whilst I see the whole BM and Mere issue as a great discussion, it has been done to death on here. Personally, I think the point about Mr Lane and a certain Kent puddle, and his lack of condemnation is more of an issue.

Seems it's one rule for him and one rule for everyone else when it comes to the "keeping it real" brigade. I personally have very strong views on the whole importation thing and see no difference between him fishing there and Des and his cronies fishing a certain Midlands water.....

Course, when you are the best mate of the two guys who started the whole thing up, you get a little more slack... http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif

ben_weir
22-09-2005, 13:37
Keen conservationists??? Wildlife and Counryside act blah blah blah circles going round in!

Matt_C
22-09-2005, 15:28
So, it is considered guesting when you fish a water where fishing is not allowed so not interfering with other anglers. Have I got it so far?

What about guesting nights on Frimley or Sutton? Same deal? Not allowed to fish it during those times and if you come and go unannounced and un-noticed will it be ok if I publicise a capture of one of the big girls caught at night?

Is this considered 'being adventurous'?

How about the car park in the close?

None of the above will affect any other anglers as nobody else would be there...

Hippy
22-09-2005, 16:02
Yes they will, if no fishing at all is allowed, all anglers wishing to have a go are on the same level playing field. The examples you gave would seriously affect other anglers.

ben_weir
22-09-2005, 16:28
Now I am confused it is fair to break the law if everyone is doing so because this makes it a level playing field???

kenniff
22-09-2005, 16:57
started of thinking "what a winger"
but it makes you think.
mind you just because theres a sign saying no fishing behind him,does'nt meen he caught it illegaly.
i myself and pure and true and have never lied or broken any laws in my life,so i don't have to worry about ever being caught.

ENJOY http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

stomp
22-09-2005, 20:39
why is wrongrod so bitter and twisted anyway ? did he loose the bm at the net or something http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wrongrod
23-09-2005, 15:22
only asking a question. Nice to see os many replys. pmsl

wrongrod
13-10-2005, 22:03
I don't know what to say. I thought I was just a guest(ing). And realy did not think I would win. I would like to thank Brentwood Angling for there support. I would also like to thank terry, and all those who's explots inspired, and stimulated me to finger my keyboard with such passion. Could I also thank my agent, my good friend Henrey Weston, without who's 8.2% oak conditioned cider. I could not sit in front of you all now. Last but by no means least. I thank all my devoted readers. Whithout who's support I would not have won this special award. As for those of you who want to know when I will write a follow up to Conflict of Interest. All I can say very soon. TTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKK KKK UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. All. WRONGROD