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SAMR
05-02-2001, 18:29
I've just read colin davidsons article on common carp and thought that bait for commons must vairy from water to water. i have fished with pure grange this year on a small club water and have been completely plagued with commons and have only had one mirror to around 20 commons.
has anyone else had results like this?
Keeping it real
Sam /images/forum/icons/cool.gif

CarponlineEditor
05-02-2001, 19:07
I seem to be having the opposite problem I have had eleven twenties since September (I know greedy so and so) but only one has been a common. So far I havent managed one of the biggies, and theyre all commons. I was wondering about the bait but I still reckon they are just brainier than me!

Andy

paulh
06-02-2001, 09:32
I can only catch commons,outnumbering mirrors about 10-1,
yet the waters I fish usually are about 50/50 commons/mirrors
or mainly mirrors.
paulh

DanTheMan
06-02-2001, 13:25
cash - i know mate, i haven't fished there, but have read a lot about the car park, those mirrors are mugs arn't they!!!!!
/images/forum/icons/laugh.gif/images/forum/icons/laugh.gif/images/forum/icons/smile.gif/images/forum/icons/smile.gif
keep up the good work
Dan /images/forum/icons/wink.gif

Crispy
06-02-2001, 13:27
Very strange one this, can they really be that different?

I don't think I've observed fish as much as some of you but the ones I have haven't lead me to draw such defined conclusions.

I have fished one particular water since I started fishing and although I only fish it once or twice a year now I mainly catch mirrors, however years ago there was a fairly even split with the commons and mirrors. I spoke to someone who fished it a lot last year and he had caught 10 different 20's the biggest and the majority being commons.

If they are that different I wonder if for some reason commons shoal together or at least spend time together. If the same is said of mirrors and they become wary as a group, after a period of time of not being caught (due to their shyness) they may all go on the feed at the same time? When I say go on the feed they may be more liable to be caught for a number of weeks or months as a group?

Probably a complete load of old tosh but it is a different slant on things.

Simonm
06-02-2001, 13:36
How comes I can only catch commons from Horton? Is it the bait?

This is not strictly true however I have had twice as many commons as mirrors. Roll on TPC.

Simon

G_CHILD
06-02-2001, 13:39
perhaps not all tosh,i remember one one occasion fishing a lake that throws up no more than 20 takes a season,1 morning we had 7 takes between us in 2 hours.all the fish bar 1 were commons,they all came from preety much the same area,
there might be something in it but i doubt it ?????

Crispy
06-02-2001, 14:48
I just can't see them being that different that they would require different tactics, now if we were talking different sexes of fish that could be something to do with it.

Think about how wierd the chicks are that you know?

Maybe Ian could shed some light on this one

Crispy
06-02-2001, 14:49
Not the women Ian, the fish!

CarponlineEditor
06-02-2001, 16:30
One thing that I have noticed over the years is that there are certain carp that dont eat our baits. I first noticed this when I had a large aquarium long ago. I had four small mirrors in there and one common. The mirrors would eat near enough anything that you dropped in there (apart from the TV remote that my littlest once dumped in there for some strange reason) but the common never ate anything but the green algae off the sides and back of the tank. Now I know this is just a one off and I am not trying to say that commons or mirrors do this but that some fish do.

When these fish had got too big for my tank they were promoted to my dads garden pond. They were getting much bigger and the common was by far the biggest. We noticed though that once again, when the pond food or any other type of food / sweetcorn, boilies etc was dropped in the mirrors would gobble it up straight away but the common would just sit and watch them and munch on the weed and snails etc that it found in it.

These carp are now in a library pond because my dad moved away and they are now pretty big. The common could well be twenties. If you look down into the water from one particular bit of the lake you can watch these fish. Drop boilies, sweetcorn, chum mixers etc in and yes youve guessed it the mirrors will eat them all but the common just watches and doesnt seem bothered at all.

Right before all you lot say well thats not neccessarily making commons harder than mirrors, that is not the point i am making. The point is that after seeing this happen and also watching carp in different waters feeding in the margins I have come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly that there are some carp that just normally eat natural foods and only very rarely do they get caught on our baits.

Blimey numb fingers lol

What do you lot reckon to that one then??

Andy

Crispy
06-02-2001, 16:56
Well I've been thinking about it and I think it's a load of cobblers.

Now don't get me wrong here but we are dealing with fish, without our intervention i.e. catching them and making them wary, they would eat (or at least test) anything they came across.

Someone could put me right here but carp are carp, common or mirror, linear or leather, the only difference is scales and scale patterns.

Unless your knackers glow golden like Mr Shelley and friends and you have that gift of finding and seeing fish in impossible conditions and you can target specific fish in millions of acres of water, you will never know what is picking your bait up.

If there were differences between commons and mirrors that meant you could target them, surely by now someone would have come up with a bait that would repel bream and tench but be attratcive to our carps?

TONYM
06-02-2001, 17:55
A true story coming up here
I was fishing scopex boilies over pellets,and caught all but 3 or 4 of the mirrors residing in my local pool,15 mirrors in total,but could not get a single common,25 commons in total,one day after 3 more mirrors i ran out of pellets,I used to feed in a couple of catapults full after each Fish,so I put a couple of pellets on a hair,crumbled up some boilies and fished this new way,Guess What 3 commons in 2 hrs,not a single Mirror.
next trip armed with more pellets,I fished one rod my old way,and one the new way,
guess what,mirrors to boilies,commons to pellets.at the time I thought nothing of It.
reading this thread It bought it all back.spooky or just a coincedence? I aint got a clue just thought I'd throw my 2 peneth in./images/forum/icons/crazy.gif
<font color=green> tata </font color=green>
TonyM /images/forum/icons/cool.gif

alex
06-02-2001, 18:21
Well it looks like its time for me to join in on this one and dig up another of stories from Twynersh as many of you have read from some of my past posts I have been after a certain common called the Star at Twynersh now the former baliff who fished the water for I think nine years and never once has caught this fish he has had every other fish most of them mirrors and in most of my time fishing I have never had a twenty pound common which Twynersh has plenty of but every time I stalk a common I end up with a mirror and I have watched the Star and all the other commons in the lake and most of them are single feeders meaning they feed on their own and not with others and its not the first water where I have seen this feeding pattern on most of the waters I fish the mirrors shoal up with each other now when you are putting out beds of bait your more likly to get a shoal of fish than just one and thats my opinon on why mirrors are caught more often than commons.

Crispy
06-02-2001, 19:40
Oh well, looks like I'm very very wrong.

I have just looked through my diary for last year, out of 60 odd fish there is a fairly even split of commons and mirrors to 26lb from 11 different waters on only 2 different boilie baits. There is no pattern regarding ratio's of commons or mirrors when fishing over particles.

That's probably why I can't make head nor tail of this one, oh and I'm knackered.

scorpio
06-02-2001, 21:35
As the species of carp is the same, the scientific breed I mean there shouldn't be any difference. A fish cannot see itself so don't know what it looks like but I have seen on more than one occasion commons & mirrors shoaling up sparately. I used to fish some lakes in East Grinstead and one end of the lake you would 9 times out of ten catch commons and the other end would be mirrors. We named the lakes the common end & the mirror end. I think it may be the shoaling habits of the fish more so than the bait used. With the pre baiting a lot of you guys do you will fish mainly in the same area. Just a thought /images/forum/icons/smile.gif


Tony

Crispy
07-02-2001, 16:30
Interesting to hear that Ian, would you say that the different gene pools creating different scale patterns run parallel with different races in our society, i.e. different habits?

Smarts
07-02-2001, 16:45
We all tend to have different habits due to culture and we respond to our enviroment in different ways to carp.....they are only looking after number one!

Smarts

paulh
07-02-2001, 20:34
Must admit the bait factor doesnt seem to affect my catching of commons I've had them on bfm tares good old luncheon bread maggote active8 tutti's etc
how do you catch a mirror?
/images/forum/icons/cool.gif /images/forum/icons/cool.gif
paulh

Simonm
10-02-2001, 14:25
Chris
Anything going on down there?
Can't get down for two weeks. How are the monster stoppers? (Ebro Rods).

Race you for TPC.


Simon

SAMR
10-02-2001, 19:02
I think that commons can be alot harder than mirrors sometimes - they just seem to be more warier.
I was on holiday in cornwall and was fishing a very small lake stocked 50/50 mirrors and commons. I completely slaughtered the place 25 mirrors in two days - all off the top. I only caught 1 common - a pristine double that i stalked on the last day.
SAM

jimshelley
10-02-2001, 21:36
hi,
theres a nice one in fen drayton which me and a few close mates have seen around the mid forty plus.they are in sum cases very differant to mirrors ?.
jim shelley
keeping it real "E.C.H.O.".

SAMR
10-02-2001, 21:53
is that the one you went scuba diving with?
Has it ever been caught before?
Sam

jimshelley
10-02-2001, 22:03
hi sam,
no it wasnt mate ,that one your on about is the 34 gary bayes caught later on.but he was there with some of the others but they stayed away, probably worried ?.
jim shelley
keeping it british,"E.C.H.O".

ian
11-02-2001, 19:20
theres always a big common lurking in a lake that is just to cute to get caught , harfield , kingsmead 1+2 another couple of lakes ive fished have 30+ commons that don't get caught theres about 8-10 in the cray only 3-4 have have been caught , there are like a diffrent fish to the mirrors they tend to hang back when others feed there either total mug fish or very hard to catch

horse
12-02-2001, 15:18
Is it right but i have read in different book and mags that commons feed different to mirrors.Not as tilted up as much , commons are show as feeding more parallel to the lake bed. if this is so then maybe the rigs that we use are more suitable to picking a mirror than a common. don't know if any one else has read about this.
No matter any every lake has commons in it that never get caught maybe they are just more coy than mirrors and wise up to us quicker.

Luke
12-02-2001, 17:03
I've always thought of commons as hardier fish due to the armour like array of scales, able to withstand more heat or cold. I came up with this theory, because of all the commons you see in places like the St Lawrence River. Also other areas of Canada and America as well as Australia seem to produce mainly (if not all) commons. These fish have to withstand awesomely cold winters in Canada and amazingly hot summers in the USA and Australia. Something I've noticed from my own, and my friends captures is that commons seem more willing to feed in either very cold temperatures or very hot temperatures. In the winter, IF I get a take, I sort of expect it to be a common, depending on the water. The common in the Car Park lake came out as winter was approaching last year (I think!!). As did some of the commons in the lake I fish, some of which hadn't been out all year. I will agree that huge beds of particles seem to sort the wily commons out. Then again, every lake containing carp seems to have its mythically proportioned common that just never gets caught.