PDA

View Full Version : Anything but a round boilie!



PaulGooch
12-01-2013, 19:15
It crossed my mind that maybe barrel shaped baits result in more hooked fish than spherical baits because the barrel when ejected by the fish will spin in a more awkward manner than a spherical one therefore increasing the chances of the hook finding the mouth...

What's do you all think about that idea? And does anyone have any evidence or theories on the subject?

Cheers

toby
12-01-2013, 19:23
I would love to respond with some sort of scientific answer but I won`t and can`t but I`ve always used dumbell hookers as the hookbait and when switching baits (last year) I had the bait roller roll some dumbells, probably a confidence issue.

sleng
12-01-2013, 19:29
I very rarely use a round hookbait, be that a bottom bait or pop ups. It can make a difference in my opinion. Especially when you are fishing over a load of chopped up sausages.

brian c
12-01-2013, 19:40
i also use dumbells as hook baits & have done for the past few years. only use round ones as pop ups. please don`t ask me why, as said before maybe it`s a confidence thing.

Simmo16
12-01-2013, 19:53
I definitely think dumbell hook baits are more effective than round baits. Whether that is because of the scientific reasoning you talk about I don't know! They do in my opinion pose far less 'threat' to carp. I fish for very old and riggy fish at a park lake and have had two high twenties on them. Plus two twenties from highly pressured day ticket lakes.

youngie3213
12-01-2013, 20:08
If its small enough to fit in a carps mouth, no matter what shape, they will eat it.

Thats as scientific as you need to get, dont worry about it. Be confident in everything you do, put the effort and time in and funny enough you catch more. :thumbs:

toby
12-01-2013, 20:31
If its small enough to fit in a carps mouth, no matter what shape, they will eat it.

Thats as scientific as you need to get, dont worry about it. Be confident in everything you do, put the effort and time in and funny enough you catch more. :thumbs:

Doesn`t that go without saying:confused:

PaulGooch
12-01-2013, 21:10
I wouldn't say my thinking was scientific, maybe more logical... I've fished with barrel pop ups from proper jobs. can anyone recommend any pop up dumbels from other companies?

youngie3213
12-01-2013, 22:12
Doesn`t that go without saying:confused:

Sadly these days not for the majority! :(

You can plenty of time on a water and catch nothing, a little bit of effort at the same time you can catch loads.

Thats off topic though!

retro
12-01-2013, 22:16
They will suck anything up it's how it behaves on ejection that matters a barrel when ejected could easily bounce the hook out wheras round ejects uniformly

wrongrod
13-01-2013, 07:13
I quite like fishing my round bollies, butterfly style. Does anyone still use this method?

carpmanspen
13-01-2013, 09:57
Yeah I like the butterfly method. But can't say I've caught much on it because I don't catch much whichever way!:rolleyes:

MooseMan
13-01-2013, 10:11
I think the reasoning behind the OP is sound, that's why the snowman is such an effective hookbait.
This is only my opinion, but its a considered one. I believe that the snowman gets picked up the same amount of times as a single hookbait, but hooks more fish because of the way it behaves in the mouth.

Hippy
13-01-2013, 10:27
I think the reasoning behind the OP is sound, that's why the snowman is such an effective hookbait.
This is only my opinion, but its a considered one. I believe that the snowman gets picked up the same amount of times as a single hookbait, but hooks more fish because of the way it behaves in the mouth.

I would say the same - a carp has a bloody big mouth. A round hookbait on a supple link travels in a straighter line than a double, or dumbell. Nothing to do with clever carp sussing round baits, just mechanics.

Quiet Corner
13-01-2013, 12:32
Agree with Hippy on this one

Rod Duster
16-01-2013, 20:40
Round standard bottom baits are definitely easier to eject in comparison to bells, fill up a bath with water and drop in a made up and baited rig with a lead on! Mimic a carps mouth with your hand if you open your hand up fast over a rig it will suck in the hook (crush your barbs and dont sharpen before you test) a standard round bait will come out quite easy, a bell is slightly better than round, then try with a balanced bait be it a kebab, snow man, or a drilled and plugged bait which are better than cork dust wafters imo! If you balance the bait correctly (compensate for it taking on water too so go slightly lighter to start with) you will be left with a hook stuck in your hand and as you give a bit of movement the hook will stay in position more often than not where as the weight of a standard bottom bait helps shake the hook free with not a lot of movement!

Some carp wont eat round baits as readily and can even spook of them (wise ones often come back days later for a safe munch) if you are baiting up with round baits I would be more concerned about the weight of the bait / balance of the rig then the shape of the bait on your rig!

For those that dont want a little prick in your hand :confused: I spoke to somebody that replicated the same test with a large food gun, he pulled a rubber plumbing glove over the enlarged opening and cut a hole to replicate a carps mouth with similar effect! :thumbs:

Suprafisher
16-01-2013, 21:20
What do you think provokes ejection the most?

1) Feeling the hooklength material
2) Feeling the hook, point or otherwise
3) Feeling the bait is not getting down
4) other?

toby
16-01-2013, 21:23
Resistance maybe?

Lea Valley Carper
16-01-2013, 21:29
What do you think provokes ejection the most?

1) Feeling the hooklength material
2) Feeling the hook, point or otherwise
3) Feeling the bait is not getting down
4) other?

Thats the million dollar question! We ever work that out and we'll slay them! :thumbs:

Mr_Bump
16-01-2013, 21:31
What do you think provokes ejection the most?

1) Feeling the hooklength material
2) Feeling the hook, point or otherwise
3) Feeling the bait is not getting down
4) other?
None of the above.

Carp suck and blow, its how they feed.

On the blow you might be lucky and hook them you might not.

Suprafisher
16-01-2013, 21:56
None of the above.

Carp suck and blow, its how they feed.

On the blow you might be lucky and hook them you might not.

so a carp even in a pressured water never picks up a bait and just plain eats it? it always ejects/blows it as a matter of course........I don't think so personally.

kathrynshubby
16-01-2013, 22:04
totally agree with that, think about how they feed in reality - they suck and blow, yes, but they retain what they see as valued food items, they don't just blow everything out continually.
They slip up, but nearly always when they're trying to eat the bait, not simply play blow out games with it.

I think....:confused:

Matt

Mr_Bump
16-01-2013, 22:04
so a carp even in a pressured water never picks up a bait and just plain eats it? it always ejects/blows it as a matter of course........I don't think so personally.
:lol:

I didnt say that, I said thats how they feed, in and out, everything goes in and out, things get seperated, stuff goes back out. A rig clearly isnt going to go in and get eaten so its part of the "out" stuff. This is where luck plays a part about hooking or not.

They dont necessarily feel it and spit it out, they dont stop eating when they feel twigs and stones.

Of course some bait will just go in and get eaten but some will come back out again and then get missed or even sucked back in, its how they feed.

Suprafisher
16-01-2013, 22:15
A rig clearly isn't going to go in and get eaten so its part of the "out" stuff.

ok can we just focus on this then...

So you are saying it feels/identifies the hook or hook link as inedible and so blows them out?

Mr_Bump
16-01-2013, 22:20
Nope, Im saying it goes in, doesnt go far enough back to be crushed and goes out with the rest of the rubbish.

Suprafisher
16-01-2013, 22:25
which is what I was trying to say in my option 3...

Mr_Bump
16-01-2013, 22:28
No, your saying the fish is specifically ejecting the bait, Im saying the bait is being ejected as a by product of how fish eat.

Lea Valley Carper
16-01-2013, 22:41
Nope, Im saying it goes in, doesnt go far enough back to be crushed and goes out with the rest of the rubbish.

If that was true Ben, we would get a lot more "bite offs" on longer, say 12" hooklinks. Bite offs are very very rare indeed.

Suprafisher
16-01-2013, 22:45
aren't we are both saying if a fish can't suck a food item into the area it can crush it then it will blow it out?

<just to avoid confusion this was in direct response to Mr Bump>

Mr_Bump
16-01-2013, 22:49
To even get a link to go in the full 12 inches the carp would have to be sat on the lead, highly unlikely.

Lea Valley Carper
16-01-2013, 22:55
Or at the very least, you would wind in with no bait, where they have taken it back to the throat teeth and crushed it with the freebies etc and then eject your hook/hooklink.

IMO they know something is wrong and eject it. If they don't pull the hook home whilst its in their mouth.

Lea Valley Carper
16-01-2013, 22:57
To even get a link to go in the full 12 inches the carp would have to be sat on the lead, highly unlikely.

Definitely not a small one, six pound stockie say.

Mr_Bump
16-01-2013, 23:02
Smaller fish maybe but theyve got smaller mouths and our gear will go in easily but will hang up a greater percentage of the time, same with tench/bream, we seem to have no problems hooking them :lol:

Hippy
17-01-2013, 11:21
None of the above.

Carp suck and blow, its how they feed.

On the blow you might be lucky and hook them you might not.

Carp take in food, and eject inedible bits. A hook is inedible... the bait is atahced to it.

Watch any cyprinind feed on the bottom, they suck and blow at food all the time.

common
17-01-2013, 11:25
They are much better at filtering bits and pieces than I ever thought they were. I have 3 carp in a large aquarium in my lounge. There is gravel as a substrate, various logs, plants etc (plastic!) and something I find interesting is how they will pick up a soft boilie and chew it on its own, but when given a frozen boilie they suck up gravel and use it to grind the boilie up whilst holding it in their mouths.

Apply that to your angling...

Hippy
17-01-2013, 12:33
They are much better at filtering bits and pieces than I ever thought they were. I have 3 carp in a large aquarium in my lounge. There is gravel as a substrate, various logs, plants etc (plastic!) and something I find interesting is how they will pick up a soft boilie and chew it on its own, but when given a frozen boilie they suck up gravel and use it to grind the boilie up whilst holding it in their mouths.

Apply that to your angling...

Now THAT'S an interesting point....:clap:

Pepsi P
17-01-2013, 12:39
So you are saying put gravel in your spod mix? I like it :cool:

ripper
17-01-2013, 14:38
fashion hooks from gravel

ripper
17-01-2013, 14:40
Carp take in food, and eject inedible bits. A hook is inedible... the bait is atahced to it.


this

the tricks are to make the hook stick more often and to keep the carp trying

Rod Duster
18-01-2013, 03:33
What do you think provokes ejection the most?

1) Feeling the hooklength material
2) Feeling the hook, point or otherwise
3) Feeling the bait is not getting down
4) other?

From my tests I would have to say

1) Weight of the bait

There are so many variables reg length of the rig depending on the materials used for the intended lake bottom / spot you are fishing but if a fish fills something wrong and the rig is too long the fish is swimming away already with the slightest shake! I am a lot more confident after testing my rigs underwater and recommend to all of you to try for yourselves, sometimes a rig will hook up with a KM palm test but under water can be hit or miss, a slight tweek of hair position or hook stops if using a micro ring swivel can make a big difference! I think it was TD that said on here recently that his fav rig was 4" of Amnesia which in theory is harder to go in but if it does go in its a hell of a lot harder to come back out. So you have to make your choice depending whats if front of you and what your fishing for on the day, I dont think there is such a thing as a perfect rig, you just have to get as close to perfect as you feel you can, one rig may be ideal for one spot / one particular fish but not another spot or the target fish you are after :confused: !