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mace
28-06-2010, 19:54
If somebody owns their own lake for their own use do they still need a rod license to fish just that private lake and nowhere else ?

Neil_D
28-06-2010, 19:57
Yes.

tenchtamer
28-06-2010, 20:19
yes........but whether the person who owns the land/lake is obliged to allow access to the E.A. to check licences is open to debate.

lyndon
28-06-2010, 20:36
I thought they had a power of entry in order to carry out checks, is that not the case then ?

brandon1
28-06-2010, 20:52
There are very few groups who have the power of entry. Don't think the Police can without a warrent. Customs and Excise come to mind.

Mattyhairball
28-06-2010, 21:10
Yes DEFINATELY need a licence!! a couple of years back my neighbour was fishin a private lake his friend had just bought and an enviroment agency bailiff spotted the gate open wandered down and slapped him with court apperarance for no licence!!!! neighbour said in court the bailiff was tresspassing on private property but it didn't matter they fined him anyway!!!!

Nieghbours a twat anyway and if I buy one so should he!!!!:lol:

Mr_Bump
28-06-2010, 21:12
I thought they had a power of entry in order to carry out checks, is that not the case then ?
A quick google suggests they do for Environmental matters but I cant find anything with regards to angling.

andyac
29-06-2010, 06:11
my club has our own freeholds and the E.A have keys to access.

Paul_the_Bailiff
29-06-2010, 07:03
A quick google suggests they do for Environmental matters but I cant find anything with regards to angling.

I guess angling would be included in that.

John_H
29-06-2010, 07:52
Re;

"but whether the person who owns the land/lake is obliged to allow access to the E.A. to check licences is open to debate."

It certainly doesn't stop the EA bailiffs visiting privately owned, commercial stillwater trout fisheries to check...indeed early springtime on trout lakes is one of the times and places when you are most likely to encounter the EA guys.

PS - don't assume the fishery has a block EA licence - almost none do any more (yes, I was that soldier....)

Bal
29-06-2010, 07:53
If you are using a rod, you need a license. A rod license doesn't allow to fish anywhere in particular. Its a license to use a rod. Permits and day tickets are what allow you to fish particular places.

mr_penetrator
29-06-2010, 07:57
If somebody owns their own lake for their own use do they still need a rod license to fish just that private lake and nowhere else ?

The licence covers you to fish with rod and line, regardless of venue. You then need permission one way or another to fish your chosen venue.

gloucesteroldspot
29-06-2010, 10:20
Re;

"but whether the person who owns the land/lake is obliged to allow access to the E.A. to check licences is open to debate."

It certainly doesn't stop the EA bailiffs visiting privately owned, commercial stillwater trout fisheries to check...indeed early springtime on trout lakes is one of the times and places when you are most likely to encounter the EA guys.

PS - don't assume the fishery has a block EA licence - almost none do any more (yes, I was that soldier....)

Missing the point here I think. Whether or not the EA have access rights to check, you still need a licence to fish with rod and line in freshwater in England and Wales. That applies whether or not you're likely to get caught doing it.

Schroedinger's cat anyone?

John_H
29-06-2010, 13:37
"Missing the point here I think."

GOS, I certainly wasn't seeking to encourage people not to buy a rod licence, simply observing that in April fly fishers are more likely to encounter the EA bailiffs than anglers in other disciplines and at other times of the year seem to, and concluded by acknowledging a careless error I made several years ago that cost me a 10 fine........not sure I see your point......

gloucesteroldspot
29-06-2010, 14:07
"Missing the point here I think."

GOS, I certainly wasn't seeking to encourage people not to buy a rod licence, simply observing that in April fly fishers are more likely to encounter the EA bailiffs than anglers in other disciplines and at other times of the year seem to, and concluded by acknowledging a careless error I made several years ago that cost me a 10 fine........not sure I see your point......

Sorry - I wasn't critising your own response at all. My point was directed towards the general notion being discussed that if the EA can't get in to check, why buy a licence? One may as well argue that as long as a fraud, burglary or murder remains undiscovered it is not a criminal offence.

John_H
29-06-2010, 14:14
With you now, and agree your sentiments.

gloucesteroldspot
29-06-2010, 15:06
With you now, and agree your sentiments.

My fault really - should have quoted the original post about access!

tenchtamer
29-06-2010, 17:05
I seem to have started something that people have twisted into something i did not intend..............the first thing i said was yes.....i.e. you always need a rod licence. The second thing i said about right of access being open to debate was meant completely literally i.e. i didn't know whether the EA could gain access to private waters or not. I was NOT saying don't buy a licence because no one will be able to check it.

Mr_Bump
29-06-2010, 17:24
I guess angling would be included in that.
Id assume it would too but still couldnt find anything concrete either way.

stuart666
29-06-2010, 20:37
the ea cannot come onto your own privately owned lake unless they have a warrant and a dam good reason. the only people who can do what they want are customs an excise. they can basicaly come and go as they please so if you havent got a cocane factory there your fine. you still need a license though no matter where you fish in england and wales. scotland is excempt.

robhale
29-06-2010, 21:57
I think you may find that EA Bailiffs have the power to "enter remain upon and traverse any lands...adjoining or near to any waters within the [river authority area] for the purpose of preventing any offence"

They can also request a magistrate's warrant for searches. They have similar powers to a constable in order to go about their remit.

They are reviewing PACE 1984 and other more specific legislation for the EA to give more powers

Buy a rod license. :)

stuart666
29-06-2010, 22:19
I think you may find that EA Bailiffs have the power to "enter remain upon and traverse any lands...adjoining or near to any waters within the [river authority area] for the purpose of preventing any offence"

They can also request a magistrate's warrant for searches. They have similar powers to a constable in order to go about their remit.

They are reviewing PACE 1984 and other more specific legislation for the EA to give more powers

Buy a rod license. :)

im referring to a private lake on privately owned land, not a an ajoining river. but yes buy a rod liecence anyway.

robhale
29-06-2010, 22:57
It doesn't matter what type of water it is.

Stumpy
30-06-2010, 12:01
It doesn't matter what type of water it is.

as an ex hounnary (yep i know it smelt wrong) EA baliff I can confirm that the EA can enter private land for the checking of licenses or at least that was what I was told way back in the mid 90's But of course the law may have changed since then

sally
30-06-2010, 13:30
Gents
Some 30 years ago but the back of the TWA Bailiff Warrant card said.........

Thames Water Authority Water Act 1973
Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975

In pursuance of Section 32 of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975 the Thames Water Authority HEREBY ORDERS that the holder of this warrant card being a Water Bailiff duly appointed by the said Authority may exercise the power to enter lands as specified in the said section.

Basically a bailiff can enter any property at 'reasonable' times to ensure the law is/was being observed. Private waters are not exempt and a rod licence is still required.

I'm not aware of any changes in the law although of course there may be regional bylaws which are different.

Mike

stuart666
30-06-2010, 22:01
i stand corrected. i didnt realise they had the powers do that mind.

Keith-with-a-question
19-07-2010, 15:23
OK - without wishing to stir up a hornets nest here - If I create a lake and stock it with fish, trout maybe, it would appear that I can then take a big net and remove any of those those fish from the pond for my consumption and no one is going to complain. In fact I could decide that I didn't want my lake any more and I could remove the fish and fill it in, and no one is going to complain. BUT if I want to sit at the side of my pond with a fishing rod - does that include a worm on a string on a piece of stick? - without buying a rod licence, I am breaking the law and I can be fined 2500 and will end up with a criminal record.

So my question is why? Why are fishing rods so special ?

I understand the concept of having to pay for the privilege of fishing on property owned by someone else, using any means, and I have no problem with that. I even vaguely understand the logic of wanting to insist on a rod licence for commercial fisheries - Well OK it's a financial logic - after all think how much money the EA would miss out on if we all went and fished on well maintained and well stocked private fisheries instead of waterways managed by the EA. It would be interesting to know how much money the EA makes out of fishermen who only fish on private water.

But I still don't understand the logic behind the right to enter my land without my permission to see if I'm using a fishing rod in my own lake.

CliveOwden
24-07-2010, 18:20
"If I create a lake and stock it with fish, trout maybe,"

you'd need an EA licence.

"it would appear that I can then take a big net and remove any of those those fish from the pond for my consumption."

you'd need an EA licence.

"In fact I could decide that I didn't want my lake any more and I could remove the fish and fill it in."

you'd need an EA licence.

Or if you decided to pump your lake dry, you'd need an EA licence, in fact if you move any large amounts of water or fish whether the lake is private or not, you need an EA licence.
Of course if you wish to fish ANY water private or not, you need an EA rod licence.

keiths
29-07-2010, 15:15
I thought you didn't need a license to fish your own private owned land as long as you do not allow fishing by anyone else then you need a license ?

Miserableoldgit
29-07-2010, 17:11
This is taken from the 1975 act ………………. And it specifically says that a large pond in your garden is out of bounds to the EA :nono2: …………. But in 33 it allows the EA officer to get a search warrant from a 'beak' if there is reasonable evidence to justify this action :rolleyes: ……….. this is much the same as the wireless telegraphy act 1949 section 5 that I am more used to dealing with.




Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975


Power to enter lands.

32. subject to subsection (2) below.-

(a) any water bailiff or other officer of a water authority.
under a special order in writing from the authority,
and
(b) any person appointed by the Minister, under an order
in writing from him.
may at all reasonable times, for the purpose of preventing any
offence against this Act, enter. remain upon and traverse any
lands adjoining or near to waters within a water authority area
other than-
(i) a dwelling-house or the curtilage of a dwelling-house.
0 r
(ii) decoys or lands used exclusively for the preservation of
wild fowl.

(2) An order under subsectian (1) above shall not remain in
force for more than 12 months.


Orders and warrants to enter suspected premises


33 . Where from a statement on oath of a water bailiff
or any other officer of a water authority, or any person appointed
. by the Minister, it appears to any justice of the peace that the
person making the statement has good reason to suspect that any
offence against this Act is being or is likely to be committed
on any land situate on or near to any waters, the justice may by
order under his hand authorise him, during a period not exceeding
24 hours to be specified in the order. to enter upon and
remain on the land during any hours of the day or night for
the purpose of detecting the persons committing the offence.

(2) Any justice of the peace upon an information on oath
that there is probable cause to suspect any offence against this
Act to have been committed on any premises. or any salmon.
trout. freshwater fish or eels to have been illegally taken. or
any illegal nets or other instruments to be on any premises. by
warrant under his hand and seal may authorise any water
bailiff or other officer of a water authority, or any person
appointed by the Minister, or any constable, to enter the premises
for the purposes of detecting the offence or the fish, nets or other
instruments, at such times of the day or night as are mentioned
in the warrant. and to seize all illegal nets and other instruments
and all salmon, trout. freshwater fish or eels suspected to have
been illegally taken that may be found on the premises.

(3) A warrant under subsection (2) above shall not continue
in force for more than one week.

biglad2010
30-08-2010, 09:54
the last time i was checked by the EA

biglad2010
30-08-2010, 09:57
the last time i was checked by the EA was back in 1993 at kielder water while fly fishing. i buy mine every year as its a must have but really they must be so under staffed as we never see them.
i am a bailiff on my local carp water and have been told there is an EA bailliff living locally and have never seen him or any of them.