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mr_penetrator
14-08-2009, 08:41
I have an Olympus E410 which I'm getting good daylight pics from. However at night things go wrong, very wrong. I just can't get that perfect night shot of a fish, any pointers I can try guys?

Tuttifrutti
14-08-2009, 08:54
Mr P... Please explain more about what's going wrong, very wrong and then people could help you better mate. Have you got a few "for instances" you could put up to show what the problem is?

mr_penetrator
14-08-2009, 08:57
Cheers tutti, off to work now but I'll put some pics up later to show you. It's mostly the eye and the flash bouncing off the wet fish, common's being the worst of the two.

carp unit
14-08-2009, 09:05
I'm probably stating the bleeding obvious but i'll say it anyway:) . Flash bounce is worse when the camara is flat on with the fish. If you hold the fish at a slight angle to the camara it will minimise it somewhat as the light bounces off away from the camara rather than bouncing straight back into it. You'll always get a certain amount of bounce at night though purely because the fish is wet and shiney.

Darren1978
14-08-2009, 09:05
As Tutti said, post up some pics so we've got a better idea of what going wrong for you.

Wet 'shiney' surfaces are going to be problemtatic. One suggestion could be to turn down the power of the flash....this is only a suggestion as I know next to nothing about flash photography

upperoilcan
14-08-2009, 09:12
Not sure about Mr P's camera but the only way to overcome this problem on the bank as already said by Darren is to see if the flash can be turned down,or use a flash gun to direct the flash away from the fish....

Tuttifrutti
14-08-2009, 09:28
Wet 'shiney' surfaces are going to be problemtatic. One suggestion could be to turn down the power of the flash....this is only a suggestion as I know next to nothing about flash photography

Same as you Darren... haven't got too much knowledge but was thinking along the same lines. You should have options to change the power of the flash. Check your manual or the menu in the camera. This may help but by doing this you may well not have enough power to light the shot well.
Failing that, you could try popping up your flash, getting a table tennis ball, cutting a big slit in it and pushing it over your flash. This can help and take a lot of glare away but make sure you test it at home plenty of times first just in case it takes too much light away.

When I first saw your post I quickly googled your camera and it looks like it has a hotshoe on it for an external flash. This would be a great option if you can find one with a swivel head to it. Then you'd be able to bounce the flash a bit higher and change it's setting to suit.

Just a few thoughts from a noddy - i'm sure there will be one or two with infinate knowledge that can answer you perfectly :)

Icesmith
14-08-2009, 09:40
I had a problem with my fuji digital camera it was impossible to frame the picture in the dark as you couldn't see anything in the viewing screen is this a problem in general with digitals camera's

Shrop
14-08-2009, 09:44
Shutter speed on longer, if on tri-pod, higher aperture and ISO settings?

Jamie
14-08-2009, 09:47
easiest I have found is changing the angle of the fish so the flash doesn't reflect straight back at the camera.

foreheaeds also seem to be an issue with this one - especially the more folically challenged. Just take a look at Jim's night shots for evidence of this... :)

carp unit
14-08-2009, 10:05
Shutter speed on longer, if on tri-pod, higher aperture and ISO settings?

You still wont be able to hold the fish still enough to avoid blur if you have a longer shutter speed.

I use the auto setting on my 400d when i'm doing night trophy shots(i generally use AV mode in daytime), it seems to sort out everything better than i can with my flashgun attached. The Flashgun is more complicated to work out that the actual camara:)

Shrop
14-08-2009, 10:10
Fair engough, C-Unit, I don't think I made that post clear enough lol... I meant to say if the camera is on a tri-pod you might be able to get away with a shutter speed of a little longer, say 1/5 sec? Perhaps holding you may get blur from holding the fish? Is that what you mean?

carp unit
14-08-2009, 10:15
Yeah, even if you have the camara on a tripod you'll never be able to hold the fish still enough to avoid a little blur, well that's what i found anyway.

coldcarper
14-08-2009, 10:29
What are you all talking about? :D all you need is a piece of cigarette paper (try the various Rizla grades until you find the right one for your camera) licked onto your flash lens......great for stopping 'Flash burn'......then simply take it off after pics taken......specifically good for compact digitals with no Flash adjustment......or if you can't be bothered to muck about with all the ridiculous settings on other digitals. :thumbs:

Darren1978
14-08-2009, 10:42
I was going to suggest a bit of tracing paper attached with masking tape

guybaxendale
14-08-2009, 10:45
The issue I seem to have with night shots is overexposing my fingers - as a proper pasty Englishman my hands and sometimes face appear bright white. I tend to just use the auto setting on my Canon S5 IS as i am no camera buff.

Here is an example:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c275/guybaxendale/Copy2ofIMG_1498.jpg

I have considered buying a external flash for it - is this likely to help?

Darren1978
14-08-2009, 10:51
As Tutti mentioned earlier, as an extenral flash could help overcome this kind of problem as you could buy a flash cord so that the flash unit can be positioned off-camera which will enable the light to shine at a different angle rather than striaght on.

Alternatively, try tadjusting the flash power downwards (if your camera can do that) or the rizzla/tracing paper idea :)

QuietlyAvinEm
14-08-2009, 11:13
HappyH what seems to be the Problem (http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:52793) again mate....LOL

Flipper_al
14-08-2009, 14:20
HappyH what seems to be the Problem (http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:52793) again mate....LOL

spat tea on screen :)

QuietlyAvinEm
14-08-2009, 14:34
That bloke seems to have gotten around the flash problem.
You knows it Al............:)

gloucesteroldspot
14-08-2009, 15:43
Quick and easy way to reduce flash glare is to put a piece of greaseproof paper (or better still drafting film if you happen to have any lying about) over the flash unit. The slight opacity will diffuse the flash, still giving a general illumination but minimising glare.

Oops - should have read page 2 first! Cigarette paper sounds a great idea.

I'll get my coat...

mr_penetrator
15-08-2009, 11:18
A couple of night shots, the first one is a self take that I don't mind too much (but please say if it could be better and how), and the second of a common that I just think is crap.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd41/mr_penetrator/MymateRobin008.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd41/mr_penetrator/314.jpg

Benny_the_bream
16-08-2009, 09:14
they dont look to bad to me flash shots with a shiny fish is going to have certain amount of flash bounce but there not that bad.

mr_penetrator
16-08-2009, 09:46
What about the eyes on both, any suggestions?

Tuttifrutti
16-08-2009, 10:39
What about the eyes on both, any suggestions?

This any better?

Before...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd41/mr_penetrator/MymateRobin008.jpg

After...
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z189/carpman1962/MymateRobin008.jpg

mr_penetrator
16-08-2009, 10:41
Brilliant mate.......explain if you can?

Tuttifrutti
16-08-2009, 10:50
Brilliant mate.......explain if you can?

Have you got any photo editing software Mr P?

mr_penetrator
16-08-2009, 11:25
probably got the one that came with the camera but I haven't really gone through it yet, if it means I can do that I'll have to have a play.

Tuttifrutti
16-08-2009, 11:37
probably got the one that came with the camera but I haven't really gone through it yet, if it means I can do that I'll have to have a play.

Just been having a nose around to see what free ones there are on the net for you. This one has a very good reputation...

http://www.gimp.org/

Basically what I did was a very very rough job just to brighten a bit and sort the eye out. With regards to the eye, you'll see on Gimp that there is something called a "clone tool". What this should do (I use a different type of software) is give you various different shaped "brushes". If you open your photo, zoom in a bit and then select a circular shaped clone brush that encompasses the bright piece on that eye that you want to change and then you're ready to go. It will give you a button to hold down and then click another part of the picture. All I did was clicked on a dark piece on the back of the fish. Then what the software has done is copied that dark piece in a circular shape and then all you do is click in the middle of the bright piece of the eye and it pastes it. It is basically a copy & paste for photos. You may have to click on the spot a couple of times to darken it but that is really it.

Simples ;)

mr_penetrator
16-08-2009, 11:50
Thanks mate, I've got a pic of a mates dog and need to get rid of the lead, I'll see if it helps

Tuttifrutti
16-08-2009, 12:58
Thanks mate, I've got a pic of a mates dog and need to get rid of the lead, I'll see if it helps

It could do.... if you select the right sized brush and also try and select blades of grass that look similar in style and colour you might do well. Can be tricky but before now i've taken whole landing nets and bags out of the shot :)

Darren1978
16-08-2009, 18:52
Can be tricky but before now i've taken whole landing nets and bags out of the shot :)

Now that is hardcore ;)

pwcc
16-08-2009, 20:11
I have been a professional medical photographer for over thirty years.
The best way to reduce the power of your flash is to put white electrical
tape over the flashes lens. This will also help reduce shadows and soften
the light. You can also use a polarising filter on your cameras lens.
Rotate the filter to increase or decrease the glare. These can be purchased at any camera shop. Also tip the fish ie dorsal fin slightly closer to the camera.
Hope this has been of some help. Tight lines. pwcc

NoCarpMark
16-08-2009, 20:34
I have found to use one of these improves the shot when using flash.



12 from amazon! and if you look they can be even cheaper!


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31-v7puGQzL._SL160_AA160_.jpg

DanCleary
17-08-2009, 09:14
I see two common problems with the pics on this thread.
the first one i believe you are too close to the camera. On your next session, take several shots of yourself pretending to hold a fish at differing distances and hopefully you will get the right distance for your camera's flash.

Also the other tip, is to hold the fish at a slight angle away from the camera, not holding it out straight, otherwise you get the flash spot of the wet flank, take several at differing angles, and hopefully you should get 1 or 2 good shots on each side of the fish.

DanCleary
17-08-2009, 09:24
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/DCleary/Carp%20Fishing/Linford%20One/32lbMarch08-2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/DCleary/Carp%20Fishing/Linford%20One/3100-2.jpg

I'm holding this fish to straight in this one:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/DCleary/Carp%20Fishing/Linford%20One/3010lb2007-3.jpg

Not perfect, but holding this fish at a slight angle has reduced the flash bouncing back:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/DCleary/Carp%20Fishing/Linford%20One/3312lbOct07.jpg

Destination Carp
17-08-2009, 12:14
Same problem here lads any tips? Is it the camera needs upgrading or do no digital cameras show frame befoer the flash goes off?


I had a problem with my fuji digital camera it was impossible to frame the picture in the dark as you couldn't see anything in the viewing screen is this a problem in general with digitals camera's

DanCleary
17-08-2009, 14:33
I found the best way to frame a shot in the dark using a digi cam, is to use a storm pole where you would be positioned, extend it up above your head by about a foot, give you room to play with the photos afterwards, rather than chopping the top of your head off when printing them.

Then place a jacket/unhooking mat on the storm pole, basically something. place a torch under the camera and shime onto jacket etc, now use this to frame and focus your camera. remove jacket,storm pole etc, turn off light, now bring fish onto unhooking mat, and click away with the remote.

worst thing in the world is to have storm poles etc in the pic, look at Paul Forward's pics in this months Carpworld and you will see what I mean. (no doubt he will get there :p )

p.s. this works best with digi SLR's, which you can switch off/on, without the settings, framing, focus etc being reset. unlike a compact digi, where would have to be quick, or no doubt it will switch itself off no doubt!

DanCleary
17-08-2009, 14:44
another tip, it doesn't always work. But I take around 4 shots either side, on the last shot of each side, I push the button on the remote (set to 2 second delay) and I drop the remote out of my hand. Sometimes it's a good shot, sometimes not, but if you can you get a shot without you holding the remote, the better the photo.

the first pic above was the last shot of that fish's side, and so with the remote dropping onto the mat below.

Tuttifrutti
17-08-2009, 14:57
I found the best way to frame a shot in the dark using a digi cam, is to use a storm pole where you would be positioned, extend it up above your head by about a foot, give you room to play with the photos afterwards, rather than chopping the top of your head off when printing them.

Good tips Dan... I go one further than that. I practtice in the garden in the dark using a bankstick. I painted the top of the bankstick with white paint and when i'm framing my shots I make sure that the white painted top of the bank stick is dead centre in the frame exactly where the fish will be. If you try this a fair amount of times first then you can work out exactly how many paces from your tripod you need the unhooking mat to be in order to get the top of your head just below the top of the frame and then you should be fine.

Even better if you have a flip round screen ;)

Hippy
17-08-2009, 15:29
I try and avoid night shots if possible - i'm much happier if I can wait till morning and save all the faffing about - but sometimes rules, species or circumstances make them unavoidable!
I find modern cameras have such good qualoty, that it's sometimes better to allow big gaps around you and the fish, then crop down to what you really wanted than risk missing bits. Also, if there are enough bushes, I will cram myself right in amongst them to give more background in the shot - if you are a long way in front of your background you'll risk ending up with the flash failing to light it and giving you a black background.

Treadmill
24-08-2009, 11:06
I have one major problem - Being a lardy git, i make big fish look small.

Im using a Cannon 400D, or it might be a 350D and it always over exposes stuff, so im grateful for the tips on Ciggy paper. Ironically, the guy that tooks these on my digi slr took better shots, which I dont have with me right now on his compact digi. When I say better, I mean the colour tones were much more accurate.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/fairweather_2006/P3141350.jpg


http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/fairweather_2006/P3141344.jpg

Tiny
24-08-2009, 11:22
what others have said already about slightly changing the angle of the fish helps reduce glare also trying to help out the camera by getting close to the background you want behind you helps.. its never going to light up you and the background if there is 10ft between you but get up close and you get someway to help reducing the black background night shot

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/steven__morrison/rendezvous/DSC_0193.jpg

also using the available light you have helps... if its a dusk shot try taking a shot towards the light (something you wouldnt normally do) to help fill the background

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/steven__morrison/bazzas%20rendezvous/DSC_0356.jpg

Smallbreamboy
03-09-2009, 10:12
I have an E410 also, set it up for trophy shots, worked great in the day with the timer, for some strange reason at night, it wouldn't take a pic, even standing behind the camera and try to take the pic wouldn't work, any suggestions? Oh besides i'm a muppet

Hippy
03-09-2009, 11:54
Did you light up the subject - some cameras need that little bit of light to focus?

PS, another useful tip - I used to carry a small slave flash to light up the background. Worked a treat untill I left it in the undergrowth at the end of a session.

Treadmill
03-09-2009, 14:19
I have an E410 also, set it up for trophy shots, worked great in the day with the timer, for some strange reason at night, it wouldn't take a pic, even standing behind the camera and try to take the pic wouldn't work, any suggestions? Oh besides i'm a muppet

That's going to be tricky when you're doing a night shot, and you need your head torch on you.

Smallbreamboy
03-09-2009, 16:59
So to do it, i need a head torch to light up the area enough so the camera recognises something there, when setting it up to get the distance right, it was focussing as the pre flash was going off.

singy
08-09-2009, 12:13
try wrapping your head torch on a tree branch so it points at the fish, should give the camera enough light to focus with.

Best advice if to get a decent flash gun. even better if you can bounce the flash off something. but carrying a white board is not really practical.

singy
08-09-2009, 12:26
Some examples of what I consider to be decent flash shots

http://www.singy.com/boat-pool/kinky-linearL-24-12-04-june-08.jpg

http://www.singy.com/boat-pool/25-common-24May08-R.jpg

http://www.singy.com/boat-pool/25-06-fully-15May08-L-low.jpg

All could do with a bit of work on the carp's eyes. but these were taken with a 400d and a 430 EXII external flash, with a flip down diffuser. though non were taken during pitch dark, all were just as the light was increasing. Even 5 mins left in the net at this time can improve results no end

singy
08-09-2009, 13:20
Another tip when photographing in the dark is to bring the background in. have something like a bush close behind you. Flash will often darken the background and only iluminate the subject. It's nice to have a bit of interest going on around the edges. These 2 are total darkness shots taken with the same gear as above.

The 400d on it's own uses bursts of flash light to focus, but when teamed with the flash gun it uses the flash's IR to focus with ensuring focus is spot on.

http://www.paul-singleton.com/photos/sandy/30.jpg

http://www.paul-singleton.com/photos/pads/30.jpg

singy
08-09-2009, 13:21
Oh, and a nice tan helps too :)

NoCarpMark
09-09-2009, 20:18
Here is a few that came out not to bad having a slight angle def helps but then when it's just you and a self take is required I just do what I have to do!

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/MarkMann/21lb5ozMirror.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/MarkMann/37lb1oz8x10copy.jpg